Learn How To Sell Without Selling Out With Matthew Kimberley

In this episode of the PracticeBloom podcast, CEO Matt Coffy talks with Bestselling Author, Matthew Kimberley about how to sell without selling.

Matt Coffy: So we have got Matt Kimberley on the podcast this morning. Matt, say hi.

Matt Kimberley: Hi.

Matt Coffy: You are the best, man. We tried to do this yesterday, but apparently we were so strong in our mental processes we broke the internet.

Matt Kimberley: I don’t think we should even mention it. I think we’re inviting fate to intervene once again if we say that we’ve been so lucky today we grazed internet.

Matt Coffy: I know. Well, we had elephants, clowns, and all sorts of things yesterday. I think that was the issue. One of the things I love about Matt is that we’ve been in the past working together and we had a lot of great conversations. In fact, it was the beginning of my discussion around putting a book together. You and I had great discussions over this and I’m excited that this thing’s sort of in its way. One of the things you do really well is you are to me a performer. Like when I see you on stage, man, you take the audience with you. I think this comes from your experience. When you grew up, what were you doing to give this experience to people that you’ve got this sort of outgoing personality that just people want to watch?

Matt Kimberley: Yeah. Misguided self-confidence comes up. I think if you ask my parents, they will definitely say that I was always the center of attention. I was always the person who was interested in having all the eyes on me, an attention whore basically. If they weren’t interested in me, then what could they possibly be interested in? It served me up until I got through the indestructible, bullet-proof self-confidence of youth and started to think about things more carefully and worry what people think about me and realize that there were consequences to my actions and things like that. But if the question, Matt, is how do you stand up on stage and bring the crowd with you, then I think certainly a little bit of self-confidence is required.  But that self-confidence can be manufactured and it comes with training and repetition rather like anything. If standing up on stage is a terrifying thing for you, then do it more frequently until it becomes less scary.

Matt Coffy: I hear you. Your book, In A Grip, is forgetting about the namby-pamby, wishy-washy self-help drivel. It’s a great subtitle. I read it. I laughed. I cried.

Matt Kimberley: Did you get a grip?

Matt Coffy: I have a grip.

Matt Kimberley: Have you still got it?

Matt Coffy: Holding on to it right now as a matter of fact.

Matt Kimberley: I don’t want to know.

[clickToTweet tweet=”‘It’s not true that those with the greatest need are the greatest action takers.’ @mjkimberley” quote=”‘It’s not true that those with the greatest need are the greatest action takers.’ -Matthew Kimberley”]

Matt Coffy: Exactly. That is interesting. We’ve got a coaching business obviously that you’re doing. Working with Michael Port. Now Michael Port is a rockstar in the world of… Like I said, getting released back in the stage presence and the ability to really come across as someone’s who’s got confidence. What is next for you right now? Because we wanted to get into this yesterday but we never got to it. I wanted to understand where you’re going with the business model because it seems like you’ve kind of upgraded your brand. You’ve become more of a presence I think. You were in Africa last week. What are the things that you’re doing that we should know about to get this discussion sort of in second gear?

Matt Kimberley: Sure. So coming on the horizon is Professional Persuasion. Professional Persuasion is a program I’ve been developing for the last five years. Just putting the final finishing touches. By developing, I mean kind of bio osmosis. I’ve been studying pretty hard since you don’t really have to get people to say yes to you, and I’ve read everything that’s ever been written about it and I’ve taken a lot of courses and of course taught hundreds, if not thousands, I think thousands of people at this point over the last seven or eight years or so in how to be more effective.  Because I’m inherently a lazy person and unlike many business development buds, I’m not massively ambitious. That can be a little bit of a disadvantage I think. I think laziness is a disadvantage everywhere. It can be a disadvantage if you’re not ambitious as a business development person.  By ambitious, I mean I’ve never been solely motivated by money. If you said you can have a ton of money but you got to work 18 hours a day for it, or you can have a reasonable amount of money and only work six hours  day, I will always go for the latter option. But with that in mind and knowing very much my weaknesses, I have broken down the entire process of going from first meeting through to acquiescence or agreement and identify the different spots that go from first meeting through to getting somebody on board and saying, “How can we become a little bit more effective in every step? How can we be a little bit more likable? How can we exercise a little bit more control over what the prospect does? How can we be a little bit more credible so asking them to invest in us is not such a gamble? How can we be a little bit more persuasive in our closing? How can we be a little bit more effective in transferring the urgency of the situation to our prospects?” I have developed a series of tools really that I’m really excited to show to the world under the Professional Persuasion brand.

Matt Coffy: I love it. I love it. I want to be a little greedy here and ask you a question of my own self-interest. Because you’ve worked with so many people, I want to ask you what do you see before we get into the persuasion story, what do you see as the biggest common denominator between people who are successful and go for it and those that are continually saying the same thing which is “I’m going to get to it. I’m almost there. I’m trying to.” It seems as if there is a separation between those who kind of cross the border and actually do the work that’s needed. I’m just curious. You’ve spent so much time with so many people.

Matt Kimberley: I think it’s urgency in many cases. It’s not true that those with the greatest need are the greatest action takers. For example, if you knew that your house was going to be repossessed next week, you’d pull out all the stops to try and make it happen. I talked about this a little bit in the Kimberley Kids Kidney Concepts which says if our need is strong enough, then it can force us to take action. For example, if I said, “Matt, you’ve got to come up with 100k this week or 200k, 300k, whatever the figure is. Can you do it?” You’d say, “No, that’s going to be tough.” If I said, “Matt, unless you come up with 200k this week, the kidney that your kid needs will not be available to you,” you would do it. You would just do it. However, there are some people for whom that is still a challenge, and those that I see who have come to our training programs or my mentoring programs, my clients who have seen rapid growth and those who seem to be floundering or stuck at the first hurdle at times is just the urgency. They’re a little bit tough with themselves. They say, “My goals are less negotiable. I’m going to be slightly less soft on myself. I’m going to be slightly less forgiving of myself and perhaps the other people.” I think you need to beat yourself up a little bit in order to do well. I think you need to say, “Here’s what I’m going for. That’s the goal.” There’s a certain amount of non-negotiability. The others who say, “Well, it would be great if…” Well, you can tell a lot from somebody’s linguistics. “What I’m hoping to do next year… I’d love it if I…” Those who are less like that tend to say, “Is what I’m doing. Is what I’m going to do. This week I’m going to have five sales conversations” as opposed to “It would be great if I organize five sales conversations” for example.

Matt Coffy: So it’s being specific and being hungry and urgent.

Matt Kimberley: Yeah, I think that’s fair. I think that’s fair.

Matt Coffy: It’s interesting because I’ve talked to a lot of people who are in the self-help coaching/self-improvement world, and I always get different answers from people. But the theme that keeps coming back is do you want it bad enough?

Matt Kimberley: Yeah. I think that’s true. I think are you comfortable? Because if you’re comfortable, it’s very difficult to make change. If you are sitting on the couch eating Doritos, drinking Bud Light with a game on an 85 inch wafer-thin 3D TV in front of you, it’s very difficult to tell yourself to get up because you’re comfortable. Or if you’ve got a safety net, it’s quite easy to say, “I can afford to slip up a few times.” But if you’re not comfortable, if you don’t have the safety net, if there is an element of discomfort, you’re happy and that might be from external or internal motivators or sources, then it’s much easier to make change I believe.

One of the ways I motivate myself is by spending money I don’t have. It doesn’t mean I’m fiscally irresponsible. I’ve got two kids and they’re in school. I’ve got an investment property. I’m not fiscally irresponsible. I kind of vow to myself that within reason I won’t say no to anything based on price. So somebody says, “Do you want to do this course? I say yes. “Do you want to make this trip?” I say yes. “Invest in this piece of software.” I say yes. And then I find that that gives me a sufficient level. It might not be the safest thing. But I budget carefully. I’m not talking about spending the kid’s school fees on the craps table. But I kind of vow to myself that money is a resource to be mined rather than something to be held on to at any cost. One way I make myself uncomfortable is spending money I don’t have.

Matt Coffy: That doesn’t mean buying a super yacht.

Matt Kimberley: No. That would be fiscally irresponsible. They say that entrepreneurs have a high risk tolerance or people who are prepared to break on their own have a high risk tolerance or greater risk management than others. There’s two sides to this coin. One is saying, “I’m happy to take risks. Therefore the upside is going to be greater.” Other arguments are that well actually entrepreneurs or self-employed people are much better at mitigating risks. So they’re better at managing risks. So yes, they’re going to prepare. They’ll be prepared to take a risk but they know that they have a back-up plan or they have some way of mitigating that risk. I think what I see amongst those who are making less rapid advancement in their business is that they’re not prepared to take the risk because they’re happy to rely upon the mitigation.

Matt Coffy: Agreed. One of the things that was explained to me by one of the self-help or self-improvement or business improvement guys was that you don’t love your kids enough, and he hit me really hard like between the eyes for that one. He says if you’re not making advancements forward in your business, then you don’t love your kids enough to give them a life that they will not have unless you make the effort. I thought that was great.

[clickToTweet tweet=”‘If you’re comfortable, it’s very difficult to make change.’ @mjkimberley” quote=”‘If you’re comfortable, it’s very difficult to make change.’ -Matthew Kimberley”]

Matt Kimberley: That reminds me of the kind of sales tactics we’d use in the time share industry. We’d have a family sit in front of us and we’d look to the kids and we’d say, “If in eight years time when you want to go to the university and your daddy looks you in the eye and daddy is sitting right there and says, ‘I’m sorry, kids. We can’t afford it.’ it’s because you made the wrong decision today.”

Matt Coffy: It’s a great closing strategy.

Matt Kimberley: It’s awful. It’s hideous. But I understand. Who was it that said, “Timid marketers have skinny kids?” Somebody famous said that. It’s quite a controversial statement, but if you Google it, it will come up and make sure the right person gets credit. But I’ve heard that before and it’s yeah I don’t know, mate. I’m probably the wrong person from an ambition point of view. My dad who was the opposite of being an entrepreneur, he dedicated himself to a life of service and poverty to a certain degree as a clerk in the holy orders, right? I certainly wouldn’t have felt more loved had he had a million dollars in the bank.

Matt Coffy: This is kind of going to this strategy. You’re all over the place. You’re in Africa.

Matt Kimberley: I’m literally all over. Never has a truer thing being said. I’m all over the place. I don’t know what I’m doing.

Matt Coffy: You’re doing a song and dance on Saturn next year. I call this the radar of opportunity. I think you’re tuned in a lot to the higher levels of opportunity because you’ve been around these people. Again you were at Superfast Business in Australia.

Matt Kimberley: I was in February or March this year.

Matt Coffy: And then you were over with Chris Tocker in the Philippines for his annual FRF, right?

Matt Kimberley: Tropical Think Tank.

Matt Coffy: TTT.

Matt Kimberley: Exactly.

Matt Coffy: I can’t remember. So many acronyms in this world. So you get around these people and I think the radars of opportunity just comes into your—it’s almost as if you’re in a higher rev cycle than most people are at. Can you expand upon that just a little bit?

Matt Kimberley: Yeah. That’s really interesting. Firstly, on a purely practical level, don’t be expected to speak at a conference if the conference organizer doesn’t know who you are, if that’s your goal. Don’t be expected to be invited for an RFP if the purchasing manager doesn’t know who you are. Don’t be expected to win the business if the prospect doesn’t know who you are. So you have to be known, right? I network shamelessly. In fact, this is like the corn, I believe that everybody will have greater results if more people know what they do for a start and managing relationships using tools to help who’s on top of them is absolutely part. I’m not one for morning routines or daily routines. I’m sure I would be a better person, a businessman if I had some kind of strict morning regime. But one of the things that I do religiously is looking into my CRM system and say, “Who are the important people in my like that haven’t heard from me in a month?”

Matt Coffy: Right.

Matt Kimberley: I reach out to them. This is taken straight from the Book Yourself Solid practice. It’s called the networking and direct outreach strategy who continue to strengthen existing relationships and make new relationships, make friends with people you want to have relationships with. So I do that kind of religiously and I tend to say yes to all and any opportunity. Not everything. As the requests become more frequent, obviously I have to filter them more and more, but why wouldn’t you? Why wouldn’t you say, “I’d love to.” Why wouldn’t you work those relationships? Michael Port again. I just keep referring back to everything he’s taught me over the last seven years. He teaches me and everybody who goes to the republic speaking training. That friends get friends work. That’s not just a case of what you know is who you know. It’s who knows what you know and do they like you because if they do, they’ll recommend you and they’ll refer you. The reason I spoke at Chris Tocker’s event in the very first place last year 2015 is because one of the speakers, Amy Schmittauer, is a good friend of mine and she recommended me, and Chris said, “Yes, Matt would be great. I’ve heard good things about him from other people I know.” So I became great friends with Chris, and on the back of that I went to his event and I met James Schumacher who was in attendance. He watched me speak. He said, “You’re great. Would you like to come to Superfast Business?” I said, “I would love to come to Superfast Business.” It works like that. If you hide, then make sure your business model supports being invisible.

Matt Coffy: Right. I think it does take a certain type of person to have an outward ability to do what you do really well which is to have a stage presence. We just had our event down in Mexico which was great.

Matt Kimberley: Ariba, ariba!

Matt Coffy: Yeah. I literally am still trying to recuperate.

Matt Kimberley: Are you still burping tequila worms?

Matt Coffy: Mezcal. A whole thing about having and doing these what I would call sort of life-changing events. I really do think if you jump on a plane, you go to the Philippines, you go to Cebu City and you would meet up with a bunch of really cool people from all over the place, it changes your perspective.

Matt Kimberley: Yeah. It’s really interesting. One of the concepts that I’ve become obsessed with over the last 12 months is normality. If your normal is get up in the morning, have a cup of tea, get in a car, drive to a miserable job that you hate, come home, hang around with the wife that you hate, sit down and watch some crappy TV, go to the occasional party with people you hate, everybody around you is doing the same thing as you. Everybody is earning $35,000 a year. Everybody’s complaining that they don’t earn enough. Everybody’s making the same purchasing decisions about size of TV, types of car. Everybody’s going into debt. Everybody’s going to college. Then that is your normal. This is just a reworking of five people you hang around with. If you expose yourself to people who have a different normal, then your normal becomes different. If you expose yourself to people who no longer commute, you start to say, “Well, why am I commuting? That seems crazy.” If you expose yourself to people who invest money in themselves, then you’ll think, “Why am I not investing money in myself?” If you expose yourself to people for whom 50k or 60k or 100k is a good month or a good week’s worth of work, then you start to challenge your assumptions of normal. We’ve known this because they’re different. In the UK and in the States, everywhere, this idea of classes or strata of society where normal is the same for one group of people.

Sometimes you have to change your geographic location in order to change your normal. If you live in a small regional town where everybody works in the only factory in town, then that is your normal. But if you travel outside of there and you expose yourself to a new normal, then you start to become accustomed to it. What do you need to do to get a job at Wall Street? Well, I would say the first thing will be start to hang out with people who work in Wall Street. That would be it. Go and spend time with them. Make friends with them. Go to the bars they drink at. Go to the clubs they go to. Even if you don’t have any money, you can still hang out with these people the right way. Go to community events. Go to the churches they go to. I’m thinking free opportunities. Go to the Alcoholics Anonymous meetings they go to. Whatever it is, in order to make these connections, then don’t be surprised if one day you find that it’s quite normal that you get a job in Wall Street.

Matt Coffy: It is getting around the new normal. It’s a really interesting way to put it which is that if you’re accustomed to this higher cycle of what I call the radar of opportunity, maybe that’s where this kind of becomes more where you just have those interactions with people who have got such a different viewpoint than the average Joe on the street which I think you kind of nailed here. Being with Michael Port, I know we’ve mentioned it a couple of times, and being around that level, I just think that there is a confidence of lifestyle and people who are out there and doing it and making it happen, I find it just fascinating that they’re able to put the time into the business model that they’re making. In our case, we do services for small businesses  and medium-sized businesses here in the States. But just to put a brand around themselves, and of course we’re all trying to really do that at the end if you own a business. You’re trying to sort of brand yourself as the most important aspect of the element of your life because you can’t go back in time and say, “I wish I did this.” The only thing you have in front of you is to make sure that you have an exceptional life going forward. Most people I think just get drowned out by jumping in the car, just like you said, going to work. It’s all over with pretty soon.

[clickToTweet tweet=”Sometimes you have to change your geographic location in order to change your normal. @mjkimberley” quote=”‘Sometimes you have to change your geographic location in order to change your normal.’ -Matthew Kimberley”]

Matt Kimberley: I’m sorry to interrupt you there.

Matt Coffy: Go ahead.

Matt Kimberley: Otherwise, I’ll forget what I was about to say. The single thread that ties all of these people together, the same people that I see at conferences in the Philippines and in Australia and then a few weeks later in Vegas because they were the same people at all three in many cases is financial confidence. It’s not saying it’s financial security. They may not be secure today but they are confident. The reason that they’re confident is because they know how to sell. They know that no matter what goes down even if their financial rug is pulled out from underneath them tomorrow, because they know that they can ask other people for money and those people will be happy to give it to them for a fair trade, then what is there left to worry about? Sure, it doesn’t mean that they are free of financial worries. But they have a level of financial confidence. There are some crippling people who live in a different normal as many people in my hometown where I grew up. I think it’s not a coincidence that I choose not to live there anymore.

Matt Coffy: I hear you. That’s the same with me. I think it’s not even selling though because yes, they have the ability to sell but I think your biggest side of the business is that you sell by not selling. Like literally it’s a different perspective. I’ve had this discussion before which is that people want to buy, not be sold.  You literally create that environment. Maybe this is dovetailing back into this persuasion strategy that you’re coming up with. Why don’t we dovetail it into this program and then we’ll kind of close it up for this session.

Matt Kimberley: Sorry. So what are we dovetailing and what dovetailing mean?

Matt Coffy: I think really our dialogue is hitting into this persuasion strategy. At the end of the day, we kind of went through how people are motivated to do what you are at the higher levels of echelon are explaining which is the persuasional tactics. Dovetailing is really melding this discussion back into your new outcoming program.

Matt Kimberley: Is it a woodworking phrase?

Matt Coffy: Yeah, of course. Dovetail is a sort of joint between two pieces of wood. So have you got wood?

Matt Kimberley:  Have you got wood? Is that the question?

Matt Coffy: Let’s go back to the power of persuasion and this new program. I’m really fascinated because of course I’ll be one of the first persons  who want to jump on.

Matt Kimberley: Yeah. So again, confidence counts for a certain amount, right? If you say that I’m selling without selling and people like to buy rather than be sold, I agree to you. People like to make their own decisions about buying. If it looks effortless when… Have you seen Glengarry Glenros?

Matt Coffy: Yeah, of course.

Matt Kimberley: So you know there’s the bit where the Opportuno character sitting in a bar and he’s having a drink with the guy who is… I forget the guy who plays the prospect, the customer. He is talking about nothing. He is talking about his philosophy of life. He is hypnotizing this guy over whisky or several. He’s scribbling on the back of a napkin. At the end of it, he doesn’t know what hits him but the guy just purchased something. He comes back a couple of days later with buyer’s remorse. He says, “I’ve discussed it with my wife.” The Opportuno character who knows this legally mandated 72-hour cooling off period says, “Just come back on Monday.”

The thing is it might look like it’s effortless or it might look like it’s happening without strategy or technique behind it. But it’s really not. I think it’s like if you watch Freddie Stare, not now but back when he was active, you watch him dance, you say it seems effortless. It’s because he just practiced and practiced and practiced and practiced. That doesn’t mean that we’re operating on a high plane. It means if you do something frequently enough, then it does start to become second nature. I’m not talking about these crappy NLP techniques that some people teach selling from the stage. If you use the words “Buy now,” then people will hear “Make a purchase now.” Easier to explain in writing, Matt. “By now” is the same as “Buy now.” We’re not talking about appearances but we are talking about just being conscious of what it’s going to take in order to get the customer onboard.

One of the things that I teach and preach and continue to bang my drum about is that you, the sales person, and your product specifically should be the prize. That’s perhaps why it looks like there’s not much selling going on because I want people to come to me because they are excited about what it is and I also want people to believe that they can’t have it necessarily. Anything that’s freely available and abundant is no longer valuable, or at least we perceive that until we’re denied it. It’s like oxygen. We think it’s not particularly valuable. We don’t think about it until we’re denied it. But I think it’s the same with making an offer. Yes, I will actively encourage people to sign up, but I also make people know that it might not be for you, probably isn’t for you. In actual fact, there is a little bit of psychology at work in that.

The principles of professional persuasion have 16 core points. If you’re the worst sales person in the world with the worst prospect database in the world and the worst product in the world, but you have 1000 conversations with people, you’ll probably get lucky sometimes. You get lucky sometimes. So my argument is if the worst salesman in the world can get lucky sometimes, that means that somebody who puts a little bit of effort and conscientiousness deliberateness into their efforts, then they’re going to increase their likelihood of making more sales. That’s my aim is to help my clients make more sales.

We’ve got 16 stages that go from qualification, so identifying who you’re going to spend time with or on. That’s about getting people to qualify themselves all the way through to the close without leaving any stone untouched. We go through how to control your customer so that they’re doing what you want them to do and you’re not running around after them and serving them. Sorry, you should be serving your customer but your prospect should be on a level playing field with you rather than having a master-servant arrangement. So you have to exercise some control over them. Got to make sure you’re likeable. There are a couple of ways to make yourself more likeable. You got to make sure you’re credible. There are some specific strategies to make you more credible. If you can be endorsed by an expert or a sponsor or a very credible third party, that can help. You’ve got to be able to clearly delineate the problem that you’re going to be solving. It might not be a serious problem like it might be the problem is your vacation is going to be shit unless you take this hot air balloon ride because that’s what all the cool kids are doing, and that’s your solution.

So you’ve got a problem. You’ve got a solution. You’ve got to know your product inside out and understand the ways that it will actively change their life. That’s what everybody teaches, right? Problem, solution, benefit. It’s then about letting people know that they’re not alone. It’s about letting them know that they are in excellent company because very few people like to be trailblazers although there are instances when you can use the trailblazer approach in order to get people onboard kind of first move advantage or the guinea pig close or something similar. You’ve got to make sure that you understand all of the reasons that they might not be buying from you and recognize when it’s appropriate to address those concerns. If we reverse engineer, we want somebody to become a customer, let’s list all of the steps that they need to take in order to become a customer and then let’s look at all the reasons they might not become a customer and make sure that they’re hitting each one of those points as we have this dance, this dance to the closing line with the customer. That’s really what the professional persuasion process is all about. We make the offer. We load the offer. We reverse the risk. We let it be known that there aren’t many of them that we have to have some element of scarcity and we have to have some element of an urgency, and we need to give them a concrete close. The close might lead to somebody becoming a customer or the close might lead to somebody agreeing to not become a customer so that you don’t waste your time on it anymore. This process can be applied to conversations with people. It can be applied to managing multiple conversations with people over a very long buying cycle. It can be applied to selling on a webinar. It can be applied to writing a sales letter or a sales page. That’s the professional persuasion process.

Matt Coffy: I really dig it. It sounds like this is going to be very exciting. Is this going to be a membership program? Is it going to be a one-time thing? What’s the process? Have you spec-ed that out? I’m just curious.

Matt Kimberley: The final decision is going to be made in the next three weeks. It’s definitely going to be something that I want to teach live. By live, I mean in real-time. So the first iteration of this is going to be a talk class because I want to make sure when it is improved and polished and made available as consumable offer, either as a book or a course or something similar, then I’m really hitting every box. So I’ll be running a beta program before the summer is out.

Matt Coffy: Alright. For those who are listening, you better jump in the beta.

Matt Kimberley: I think you’d be pretty smart to jump in the beta.

Matt Coffy: You want to be in Matt’s team. He is just amazing. Let’s wrap it up here. Two last questions and let’s get you on your way. Appreciate you calling in. You’re in Malta today obviously.

Matt Kimberley: I am. Sunny Malta in the Mediterranean.

Matt Coffy: Exactly. Love that. So first question, probably the most important question so far, number one scotch?

Matt Kimberley: For the moment, Lagavulin any year or Laphroaig. I’m not fussy about years. Something maybe 12 years or older.

Matt Coffy: Not too fussy.

Matt Kimberley: I like something really smoky, really peety, something that tastes like you’re just sucking on a charred piece of wood. Although I have enjoyed Valentines blended recently. Valentines making delicious blended whiskies.

Matt Coffy: Oh my goodness. I can’t believe it. I thought for sure you’d at least have a Glen Levitt in there.

Matt Kimberley: Yeah, I enjoy it. Listen, I’m not fussy. You know me, whatever it is. If it’s warm and wet, I’m happy.

Matt Coffy: That’s a good way to put it. So why don’t we move on to the second question which is where can we find you next? Where is Matt going to be speaking? Where are you going next? You just came from Africa, right? You almost went on a safari. Good thing you didn’t because I think there was a little bit of a rainstorm out there. Where is the next place that we can catch you? Where is the best way to get in contact with you?

Matt Kimberley: My agenda is fluid which means once things are in it, they stay. But things are added to it all the time. So I recommend you go to matthewkimberley.com just to give me your email address. We can become penpals. I’ll write to you from time to time. If you want to, you can write back. There I will always keep people updated about where I am going to be. I know I’ve got something lined up. Probably my first solo event will be taking place on the East Coast somewhere before the end of the year. I’m still putting the finishing touches to that. But I’ll keep you updated. Otherwise, I’ll be back in Tanzania very soon, possibly going to South Korea as well if any of your listeners would like to come and join me there. But the best way to find out is give me your email address and I’ll be writing to you.

Matt Coffy: Perfect, perfect. Awesome talking to you, Matt. I can’t wait to catch up to you at some point. If you’re definitely going to be on the East Coast, I’m going to hunt you down.

Matt Kimberley: Oh yeah.

Matt Coffy: I know that every once in a whI know that every once in a while you do make it to New York city which would be really cool to catch up there and  maybe we can go out and find some of this crazy, let’s just say, alternative double wood burnt charred scotch strategy.

Matt Kimberley: There we go. That’s what we do. Put the world to write over a wee dram or two.

Matt Coffy: Exactly. Talk to you soon. Again if anybody who wants to keep with Matt, he is a really cool guy to hang out with and also really smart and I’m glad that we had you on.

Matt Kimberley: Rock and roll. Thanks, buddy.

Matt Coffy: See you soon.